Faith of an atheist

"The best science of the day produced the flat Earth theory. Then, later, the better science of the day produced the round Earth theory.” Well, there’s two problems here. Firstly, “the best science of the day” DIDN’T produce the flat Earth theory. As far back as we can recognise anything we can call “science”, it was known and accepted that the Earth is round. There was a lot of disagreement about how big it was,... MORE

"The best science of the day produced the flat Earth theory. Then, later, the better science of the day produced the round Earth theory.” Well, there’s two problems here. Firstly, “the best science of the day” DIDN’T produce the flat Earth theory. As far back as we can recognise anything we can call “science”, it was known and accepted that the Earth is round. There was a lot of disagreement about how big it was, but not about its roundness. The people pushing the flat Earth theory were… ta-dah!… the Biblical literalists. The second problem is that you seem to have a real downer on progress, on the possibility that people can change their minds if better evidence comes along, on the very notion that people can know more today than they did two thousand or more years ago. Even if science HAD replaced flat Earth theory with round Earth theory, what of it? You seem to imply that testing theories and replacing those found to be wanting, is a bad thing. But if you’re really interested in explaining the universe (rather than explaining AWAY the universe) then that attitide to knowledge just doesn’t cut it. LESS

You really need to learn what an atheist is. An atheist is anyone who doesn’t believe in a god or gods. Only some atheists say there is no god or gods and even then don’t claim an absolute knowledge of the whole universe, just that what are presented as gods have no evidence for them and are inherrently contradictory. Also, science would be helpful. NO scientists say that the universe is an accident. There are... MORE

You really need to learn what an atheist is. An atheist is anyone who doesn’t believe in a god or gods. Only some atheists say there is no god or gods and even then don’t claim an absolute knowledge of the whole universe, just that what are presented as gods have no evidence for them and are inherrently contradictory. Also, science would be helpful. NO scientists say that the universe is an accident. There are processes that develop things like the nature of gases that are inherrent to them and brought the universe to what it is now without the assistance of imaginary friends. When I read blogs like this I am reminded of how not only we are the only developed western nation where large numbers of people do not accept evolution, but also how are kids are behind Latvia in science and math. LESS

A strange article really the whole premise of which confuses me. What’s all this talk of faith? The whole point of atheism or non theism is there is no faith required. You simply analyse the evidence available at any given time and connect the appropriate dots. “After all, how could anybody ever prove that God wasn’t there?” Again you seem to be missing the point a bit here, no proof is required as it is... MORE

A strange article really the whole premise of which confuses me. What’s all this talk of faith? The whole point of atheism or non theism is there is no faith required. You simply analyse the evidence available at any given time and connect the appropriate dots. “After all, how could anybody ever prove that God wasn’t there?” Again you seem to be missing the point a bit here, no proof is required as it is physically impossible to disprove a negative. You will very rarely if ever see an atheist say something so sweeping as, “there is absolutely positively no God or possibility of a God.” Why? Because by it’s very nature that discussion is completely moot and irrelevant due to their being absolutely no evidence for God. You’re as well off debating the existence of Unicorns or Sprites. The whole point of Science as PaulaJ pointed out is the constant progression of knowledge as new evidence is uncovered. The irony is quite the opposite is leveled at Science by people who don’t know what is is, “oh those Scientists who think they have it all figured out and know everything”, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact the only absolutes you’ll find are in the religious books and come from the minds and mouths of religious people. I’m not sure what exactly you’re looking for when you look for a reason to have ‘faith’ in atheism but I certainly hope you figure things out and I mean that in the most unsympathetic and non judgmental way possible. LESS

Where to start? My first reaction was to call Poe’s Law on this. Then I thought no, this is the type of argument you hear from your preacher that sounds good when it is preached to the choir but is less than impressive elsewhere. Then I googled Ron and found him to be (wait for it) the pastor of The Gathering Church www.gatheringchurch.org in Sacremento. Now you know to reread this listening for the slick... MORE

Where to start? My first reaction was to call Poe’s Law on this. Then I thought no, this is the type of argument you hear from your preacher that sounds good when it is preached to the choir but is less than impressive elsewhere. Then I googled Ron and found him to be (wait for it) the pastor of The Gathering Church www.gatheringchurch.org in Sacremento. Now you know to reread this listening for the slick preacher voice and all the rhetorical and theatrical dressing. Ron may or may not believe this drivel (shucks “I’m not as smart as they are with all their fancy theories") but it was certainly intended as a jab at atheists for the pleasure of his followers. Divide and conquer. Ron are you one of those preachers who uses the word ‘just’ in your public prayers to sound humble? And we don’t really attribute the stars to evilooshun. I don’t like it when those critical of scientists use advanced technology to attack it. You’re in the majority? The largest religion is Catholicism and they officially endorse evolution. The man with the dress and funny hat said so. You get god to finally heal an amputee then call us back. Until then keep it inside the Regal Cinema. - Bruce in Orlando LESS

Blurring the distinctions between theism and atheism by calling the latter a “faith” doesn’t sidestep the major critique of theism today, namely, that the established theistic belief systems (a.k.a., the various religious creeds) are founded on ancient texts that are believed to be either a) the inspired word of God or b) in possession of some occult knowledge that can’t be analyzed outside the particular discourse of the text itself. In other words, theism today... MORE

Blurring the distinctions between theism and atheism by calling the latter a “faith” doesn’t sidestep the major critique of theism today, namely, that the established theistic belief systems (a.k.a., the various religious creeds) are founded on ancient texts that are believed to be either a) the inspired word of God or b) in possession of some occult knowledge that can’t be analyzed outside the particular discourse of the text itself. In other words, theism today is a kind of literary criticism that makes totally outrageous claims about its own significance. Take the Bible. Put aside all the brutish things it has to say about slavery, women and genocide. When Christians aren’t muddying the water with a lot of moribund philosophical debates about the ultimately nature of reality, they will tell you that the Bible is full of deep insights for living your life in the 21st century that you can’t get from any other book and that, furthermore, the Bible is a key for not only understanding your own life, but the entire history of humanity, even the history that hasn’t even happen yet. That’s a pretty extravagant claim when we consider that 99.9% of believers today cannot read or speak Greek or Arameic, the languages out of which the Bible was formed. 99.9% of believers cannot even read Latin, the language which codified the Bible as we know it. Yet the vast majority of Christians are confident that their translation of the text is good enough to give them insights into the ultimate secrets of the universe. Now consider this analogy. If a Japanese literary critic made extravagant claims about the bestselling novels of Jackie Collins, calling Collins an even better writer than Shakespeare, would you trust his judgment even if you knew he could not speak a word of English? It is certainly true that atheists have blind spots in their worldview. Galileo’s heliocentric view of the solar system had huge blind spots, too. But it doesn’t follow that both the heliocentric model and the geocentric model are on equal intellectual footing because they both had blind spots. Traditional theism (i.e., the theism that 99.9% of religious people believe in) is a dead end, and this is why atheists are so strident about advocating that people free their minds of it. LESS

I think the point of this blog is to show that everyone puts their faith in something. Generally, the two sides boil down to those who believe in a higher power, and those that do not. But those that don’t believe in a higher power are, in essence, putting their faith in themselves and whatever their minds can comprehend. As such, those fundamentalist views that people of faith are always being criticized over, are only... MORE

I think the point of this blog is to show that everyone puts their faith in something. Generally, the two sides boil down to those who believe in a higher power, and those that do not. But those that don’t believe in a higher power are, in essence, putting their faith in themselves and whatever their minds can comprehend. As such, those fundamentalist views that people of faith are always being criticized over, are only reflected in how non-believers view them. It only becomes extremely obvious when you get comments like that from Bruce in Orland, who simply dismiss any ideas conflicting with his own, and then resort to petty name calling, such as saying Ron has the “slick preacher voice.” That being said, i would have to disagree that “the only absolutes you’ll find are in the religious books and come from the minds and mouths of religious people.” I’ve heard many self-proclaimed atheists say there is absolutely no way that a higher power exists, and anyone who believes such, is simply “unenlightened,” implying, therefore, that they are a lesser human being. The judgment comes from the extremes of both sides. Also, to claim that the children of the US are so behind in math and science has nothing to do with theism or atheism. On a side note, most public schools are only teaching evolution, and not daring to expose the students to any sort of creationism theories, probably for fear of retaliation from fundamentalist ideas on the opposing side. This can only leave the students to the conclusion that the “right” way of thinking is in favor of evolution, and nothing else. But again, us being the “only developed western nation where large numbers of people do not accept evolution,” has really nothing to do with the intelligence of our children, and is an entirely separate debate. LESS

It’s funny how atheists (presumably) attack people who believe in God rather than have a valid argument for why they believe there is no God. Is it because they don’t have any good arguments? Most likely. And the ones that have been tried have all been answered. I’ll steal a line from Thomas Jefferson, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with... MORE

It’s funny how atheists (presumably) attack people who believe in God rather than have a valid argument for why they believe there is no God. Is it because they don’t have any good arguments? Most likely. And the ones that have been tried have all been answered. I’ll steal a line from Thomas Jefferson, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” I’ll agree with Mr. Jefferson. Greg Sacramento, CA LESS

Greg, either you’re trolling bigtime, or very misinformed. “It’s funny how atheists (presumably) attack people who believe in God rather than have a valid argument for why they believe there is no God.” Why would you presume atheists do this? Most atheists I know love a good debate but rarely ‘attack’ anyone’s beliefs. Having an opposing viewpoint is not an attack. If you’ve ever encountered an atheist who is rude, don’t judge all atheists by... MORE

Greg, either you’re trolling bigtime, or very misinformed. “It’s funny how atheists (presumably) attack people who believe in God rather than have a valid argument for why they believe there is no God.” Why would you presume atheists do this? Most atheists I know love a good debate but rarely ‘attack’ anyone’s beliefs. Having an opposing viewpoint is not an attack. If you’ve ever encountered an atheist who is rude, don’t judge all atheists by that measure. I know I have encountered many Christians in my years who are very judgmental and rude, but I don’t assume that to be the norm. Secondly, you seem to be just as misinformed as Mr. Vanderwell (the author). Most atheists don’t claim to believe there is no god, they only claim that they don’t believe in any god or gods. It’s like the difference between a ‘not guilty’ verdict and an ‘innocent’ verdict. Saying someone is ‘not guilty’ isn’t the same as saying they are innocent. Lastly, your “quote” by Thomas Jefferson isn’t so much a personal quote of his as it is a letter which represented the viewpoints of a larger body of people (many of whom were religious). If you knew your history a bit better, you’d actually know Jefferson, on a personal level, was a fairly staunch atheist who once said “Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man." LESS

Atheism:1.the position that there are no deities. 2.the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. Most Christian apologists use the first definition to describe atheists, while most atheists use the second definition to describe themselves. The first definition is as dogmatic and certain as the belief of theists and shifts the burden of proof to the atheist to prove a negative, which is impossible. The second definition puts the burden of proof where it... MORE

Atheism:1.the position that there are no deities. 2.the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. Most Christian apologists use the first definition to describe atheists, while most atheists use the second definition to describe themselves. The first definition is as dogmatic and certain as the belief of theists and shifts the burden of proof to the atheist to prove a negative, which is impossible. The second definition puts the burden of proof where it belongs, on the theist who makes supernatural claims. The atheist makes no claims, he only asks that you prove what you say is true. To hold atheistic views is not a belief system; it is the absence of belief because of the absence of evidence. It does not require faith. A theist on the other hand does require faith to, as you say, “stake everything on something they can’t prove”. Pastor Vanderwell seems to think it is a shortcoming of science that what was once thought true is no longer believed; that a flat earth belief was replaced by the belief that the earth is a sphere. That is the strength of science, as new evidence is presented new theories are formulated. If you ask an atheist what would make them believe in God they will usually come up with a few scenarios that would convince them. On the other hand, if you ask a theist what evidence would make them disbelieve in God the usual response is,"Nothing, I have faith that it is true and nothing could dissuade me.” The pastor also seems to think the night sky re-enforces the belief in God. Perhaps because common sense says that since people make things then who made the stars? However, common sense does not always give the correct conclusion. Common sense tells us the world is flat. Common sense tells us the sun revolves around the earth. Science has shown both of these commonsensical things to be wrong. The fact is, we do not “make” things. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. All we do is rearrange things into a new form. All the matter and energy in the universe was “made” in a unique event that science does not yet understand. To plug God in there is to have a “God of the gaps”, that is, all things yet unknown must have been because of God. In his conclusion the pastor wonders what is like for an atheist to be in such a minority. A simple Google search would reveal that in dozens of studies done over the last several decades it has been shown that there is an inverse relationship between religiosity and intelligence. That is to say, the less intelligence you have the more likely it is that you will believe in God. Now, this does not always hold true of course because I know of many very intelligent believers, but it does show that perhaps with a more thorough examination of the facts using logic and reason instead of faith (which is sometimes defined as belief without reason) the minority may someday be the majority. ~ Gary Young A pastor was walking down the street when he saw a small boy with a basket of kittens. He remarked how cute they were and the boy said, “Yes, and they are Christian kittens.” The next week the pastor was was walking by with his wife and he said to her, “Go look at the kittens and listen to what the boy says”. His wife approached the boy and and remarked how cute the kittens were and the boy said,” Yes, and they are atheist kittens.” “Wait a minute” said the pastor,"last week you said they were Christian.” “Oh”, said the boy,"that was last week, this week their eyes are open." LESS

As as 20-year employee of the News & Review, I consider myself a staunch supporter of free speech and freedom of the press and celebrate the paper’s goal to present a wide range of viewpoints and voices. That said, it’s important to realize that not all voices are capable of forming a logical argument or presenting it in a fashion worthy of publication. In my opinion, the level of intellect behind this Reverend Vanderwell’s essay,... MORE

As as 20-year employee of the News & Review, I consider myself a staunch supporter of free speech and freedom of the press and celebrate the paper’s goal to present a wide range of viewpoints and voices. That said, it’s important to realize that not all voices are capable of forming a logical argument or presenting it in a fashion worthy of publication. In my opinion, the level of intellect behind this Reverend Vanderwell’s essay, is well below the standards of the SN&R — it is not fit for the ink it’s printed in (or pixels it’s viewed in). I consider it an embarrassment. That’s not to say that the Christian or Creation view should not be published. However, there are plenty of voices who can approach the subject with at least a little more skill than a Middle School debate team bench warmer. For a great local example check out this recent debate over Christ’s resurrection between two Sac State professors published at atheismblog(dot)blogspot(dot)com. LESS

Mr. Vanderwell, do you believe in the divinity of Shiva? Of Allah? Of Zeus? Ah, I thought not. We agree, then; I don’t believe in them, either. Those “gods” aren’t real. And the religions which base themselves on those made-up deities are, to put it kindly, untrue. (Some people may find them useful; but they’re certainly not true). This much, I imagine we agree on: Hinduism, Islam and Greek Mythology are not true. So maybe... MORE

Mr. Vanderwell, do you believe in the divinity of Shiva? Of Allah? Of Zeus? Ah, I thought not. We agree, then; I don’t believe in them, either. Those “gods” aren’t real. And the religions which base themselves on those made-up deities are, to put it kindly, untrue. (Some people may find them useful; but they’re certainly not true). This much, I imagine we agree on: Hinduism, Islam and Greek Mythology are not true. So maybe you march to the atheist drummer, after all. Atheists and Christians agree that almost all gods are fictional. The only difference, then, between us is that we atheists take it just one god further: yours. LESS